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iDermal Controversy
Topic Rating: +5 (5 votes) 
May 19, 2012
2:27 pm
Ascetic Athlete
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So I did a search for "iDermal" and it queued no results, so if this has already been discussed I apologize for the double post. 

What are your thoughts on the recent iDermal controversy? If you are unaware of what I am talking about, below is the link.

Basically the issues are:

1) He video taped the procedure

2) He is in New Jersey using a dermal punch which is illegal in that state. 

3) He immediately attaches a weighted object to fresh dermal anchors. 

 

I am curious to:
1) Your initial thoughts on the video

2) Your thoughts after stepping back and considering the ethics behind this video

3) Do you think if a more prominent artist, such as Steve Haworth, would have done this exact same thing would there be as much controversy in the community? 

4) And related to the previous question, do we give "traveling artist" too much lee way with ethics. Such as performing procedure in hotel rooms, not the most sanitary conditions.

"Body modifications say a lot about ourselves, it says even more about those who surround us"
May 22, 2012
3:20 am
banjo
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i dont see whats wrong with videoing the procedure its good to see stuff like this around on the web

being illegal in his state is a bit kinda on the edge with things because he is doing it to himself so i dont really see anything that bad about that

 

about adding the weighted object to the dermals right after its done im not really sure about that myself i wouldn't but then again would you want to wait …?

i think the video is good for people who like to view procedures like this its a bit of entertainment and its pretty freaking cool

as for ethics i dont see anything wrong with this at all i would consider doing this myself in a heart beat

i reckon Steve would be happy to see body mods advancing like this ,

if he was the first to do it i think the community wouldn't be all up in the air with how

"controversial " it is 

any artist from anywhere should know that doing any procedure should be done in a sanitary studio

that's my 2cents anyway

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/banjo182/390043_10150525461159050_511149049_11007795_1686340430_n.jpg
June 4, 2012
10:04 am
Ascetic Athlete
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So by videotaping the procedure, and thus self incriminating himself since the procedure is illegal in NJ, and going against guidelines set forth by the APP youre saying he didnt break any ethics of a piercer? I have to highly disagree with you there. Dont get me wrong, I thinks its a pretty cool mod… I just think he went about it the wrong way. 

 

I agree that a lot of good has come from people videotaping procedures for others to learn, but its a two sided coin and a lot of inexperienced people have tried to replicate what theyve seen on themselves and others (not saying this video in particular). My artist, for example, does not allow video of the procedure and any pictures can not contain his face or any identifiable part of him (such as his arm tattoos or physical feature)

 

And I agree that any artist anywhere should know that a procedure should be done in a sanitary studio, however we all know that doesnt happen. We all know that prominent artists travel to conventions and book appointments that are done in some hotel room or someones house. I feel that there is a high level of hypocritical feelings and attitudes toward this.   

"Body modifications say a lot about ourselves, it says even more about those who surround us"
June 5, 2012
12:11 am
SasQuatch9585
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1 -- As I'm not a professional, I can't say anything about whether he violated procedural standards.  I'll take your word for it that he did somehow.  Could someone be specific about what he did wrong?

2 -- The video identifies the artist as being from a shop in NJ, but if he's in a hotel room, it's quite possible the video was not made in NJ, so no legal concern in that regard.

3 -- Any space can be made sterile.  Every tattoo shop and hospital in the world began as a filthy construction site and was eventually brought up to standard.  I see no reason a hotel room could not also be brought to the same standard by a knowledgeable professional.

4 -- How much could that thing really weigh?  An ounce or two at most, is my guess.  Again, I'm not a professional, and I do understand that too much motion could cause problems, but I'm not sure that thing would be heavy enough to do that.  Secondly, how do we know he left it on there?  Perhaps he just popped it on to show the camera what the final mod looked like and then took it back off until he was healed.

Sometimes I wonder if I can say anything in less than a hundred words.
June 5, 2012
10:54 am
Ascetic Athlete
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SasQuatch9585 said
1 -- As I'm not a professional, I can't say anything about whether he violated procedural standards.  I'll take your word for it that he did somehow.  Could someone be specific about what he did wrong?

2 -- The video identifies the artist as being from a shop in NJ, but if he's in a hotel room, it's quite possible the video was not made in NJ, so no legal concern in that regard.

3 -- Any space can be made sterile.  Every tattoo shop and hospital in the world began as a filthy construction site and was eventually brought up to standard.  I see no reason a hotel room could not also be brought to the same standard by a knowledgeable professional.

4 -- How much could that thing really weigh?  An ounce or two at most, is my guess.  Again, I'm not a professional, and I do understand that too much motion could cause problems, but I'm not sure that thing would be heavy enough to do that.  Secondly, how do we know he left it on there?  Perhaps he just popped it on to show the camera what the final mod looked like and then took it back off until he was healed.

1- He violated procedures by immediately attaching a weighted object to a fresh dermal anchor. He also did it with a dermal punch, which isnt necessary. Why use a scalpel or dermal punch when a good ol piercing needle will suffice? Especially if the alternative is illegal.

2- He is in the studio in the video. I was simply asking the question about the traveling artists who use hotel rooms.  

 

3- You can only sterilize certain types of surfaces. A porous surface like carpet in a hotel room isnt one. Most hospitals and studios are set up with non porous surfaces that can be easily wiped down. Dont get me wrong, a hotel room can be made an acceptable work place in my opinion. I just think its funny who we allow others to bend the rules more than others simply based off their notoriety.

 

4- I dont think it weighs that much either, but given that its on fresh dermal anchors it isnt a good thing to do (especially since it goes against procedural guidelines). 

"Body modifications say a lot about ourselves, it says even more about those who surround us"
June 5, 2012
5:08 pm
strommer
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do you know if it was intended to be permanent or was he just playing around ? cause if it was just him not trying to keep it long term the weight wouldnt be an issue i agree that he shouldn't have video taped himself using dermal punches but in my opinion they shouldnt be illegal for a trained piercer to use some piercers are better with punches and some are better with needles but by taping the procedure and posting it on the internet he's risking getting in trouble and thats pretty dumb  

June 6, 2012
10:43 am
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I think it was an interesting and good video.  As far as using the dermal, he is already pushing the "envelope" so to speak by attaching a watch without a wristband, so I'm not overly concerned about his choice of instruments.  I mean, he is using digital equipment, and doing something I would consider pretty "futureistic", so I wouldn't expect him to be adhering to any ancient or classical techniques.  Seems pretty clean to me, although I'm not sure any of us could judge using a simple video.  I personally don't want one, but I think it's pretty awesome, and I'll even call him an innovator in the modification world!!  Kudos. 

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
June 6, 2012
10:44 am
Sommersett
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Also, thanks for posting cory!! 

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
June 6, 2012
11:43 pm
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Sommersett said
Also, thanks for posting cory!! 

Youre welcome!! And you forgot my "e" =(

 

I like trying to get interesting topics going to see what people think. Occasionally I will argue the other side of what I believe just to get people involved. 

"Body modifications say a lot about ourselves, it says even more about those who surround us"
June 23, 2012
7:43 pm
Jamesryan
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Firstly I'm going to state that I am a piercer. Now, with that said, I'd like to say that I don't believe he broke any sort of mythological or real ethical code. This was performed on himself by himself and he allowed himself to do it to himself. As far as the legality of it, there is speculation that New Jersey is in the process of making them legal again.

James

James R. Somers ModernPrimitivism.com
June 24, 2012
11:08 am
Chris Carter
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I think I agree with James. As far as ethics are concerned, this appears to fall into the safe, sane, and consensual category. I don't see why anyone within the industry would say he should have not done this for ethical reasons. Hopefully I'm not being too naive. 

Church of Body Modification, President

June 27, 2012
4:44 am
KristenAtkinson0
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Personally, I would've done the same thing. It makes a great picture, and is super cool. I kinda want one.

As for using punches in a state that it's illegal: I think as long as you know what you're doing(and if you don't, at least perform it on yourself) go ahead. When you know the risk of using something like a dermal punch, and if you've been trained to do so, I see no problem with it. It's not like he was charging a fee for it, or providing the service for anyone else at the time.

If it was Steve, I doubt it'd be as big of a deal, but that's just bureaucracy.  

June 27, 2012
9:04 pm
Sommersett
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Mythological…. giggle.

I think the manticore is pissed off it didn't do it to itself first… with its scorpion tail.  I love all those creatures!!

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
June 28, 2012
2:13 am
banjo
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i just two days ago watched a video of Steve Haworth branding Jesse's head in a hotel room on a couch how do people feel about that ?

see video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f….._QjLKJPaBw

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/banjo182/390043_10150525461159050_511149049_11007795_1686340430_n.jpg
June 28, 2012
5:13 am
Oakbear
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I'm all for risk minimisation, but as long as the procedure has informed consent and doesn't harm anyone else, where the lines are drawn are down to those involved.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
June 28, 2012
12:19 pm
Sommersett
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I think they are all being exposed to any and all types of pathogens through burning and creating smoke.  I think it's safer to do it outside with a fan blowing.   I don't morally have any problems with it.  Seems like all parties were in consent.  I have several brands.   Laws about this would be communistic… in my opinion.  What do you think Banjo?  others?

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
June 28, 2012
8:21 pm
banjo
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yeah I'm on the same page as you i don't see anything "WRONG" with it as such but just make you think like such big artist's like Steve performing procedures like this in some random hotel room when he could easy do a guest spot in a studio,

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn115/banjo182/390043_10150525461159050_511149049_11007795_1686340430_n.jpg
July 1, 2012
9:23 am
Oakbear
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Sommersett, what pathogens are they being exposed to via smoke? I'm not meaning to be a dick, it's something i am genuinely unaware of.

I think airborne cross contamination issues is an interesting area. I can see the potential with fine blood splatter etc, but realistically what risk does this present? I don't know of a studio with surgical air filters, and my understanding is these are primarily to stop infection to patient undergoing an invasive procedure anyway (body cavity being open is a big difference to a piercing).

If there is an airborne risk then surely an area where other procedures have been carried out is MORE risky in terms of cross contamination? So a hotel room is better than a piercing studio?!

I honestly don't know, but i think there is sometimes a knee jerk reaction rather than an educated examination of risk.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
July 2, 2012
9:48 am
Sommersett
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This is what I understand in my own mind, so I will share this info before I go and look it up to find articles or ask a friend.  I'm sure you can do research as well as I can.  Also, thank you for being so kind in your communication, and I am totally NOT offended.  I am also willing to be wrong and not feel stupid. 

Smoke is not the same as an inert gas which is how many people think of it.  Smoke is made up of many tiny particles of different stuff depending on what is producing the smoke.  For example, burning wood with poison ivy or oak on it will cause you to get a very bad and often traumatic case of the poison in your lungs, eyes,nose and even blood.  The smoke that comes from burning skin and human tissue is similar.  I know you can get warts from "human smoke" because it happened to a friend of mine around his eyes after doing a brand on a guy with HPV.  HIV and other viruses like the flu can also be spread through contact with bodily fluids (as I'm sure you know) and the smoke contains tiny little particles of what we are made of.  Yes, the virus can't live outside the body for very long, but the smoke hitting your face from a brand is pretty immediate and it does contain LIVE epithelial cells.  Cremation doesn't spread disease because the incineration process is so hot and nothing can survive.  Cremation is also done in a closed devise for a certain amount of time with a filter chimney. 

Hope this helps.

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
July 2, 2012
9:50 am
Sommersett
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Again, outside with a fan blowing is best… in my opinion.

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
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