Fanaticism... | General Discussion | Forum
February 8, 2012
I grew up as a member of both the catholic and chiristian (pentecostal) religions… through out the course of my belonging to both sects i came across a bunch of ppl that were just fanatics of the "faiths"… people who ignorantly followed beliefs without so much as investigating their meanings… people who were so closed minded that they let their own bigotry drive off members that actually were looking for meaning within those communities… i guess what im trying to say is that i believe that in the CoBM there is some sort of fanaticism… people who modify for the sake of attention and not for the core value of the modification… i was just wondering if there are any people who agree or disagree with this… i do honour valour… you will not offend me with your comments… im just simply curious on the various points of view we all share and hope to better understand one another…..
February 3, 2008
You raise an interesting question. Why do people modify themselves? For attention, rebellion, spiritual reasons? I would guess that, for most people, there are several reasons for any given mod. And if one of those reasons is for attention/to be noticed, I don't think that's an inherently bad thing. I don't think there are many CoBM members who would rank 'attention' as the number one reason for their mods, however.
Church of Body Modification, President
I think one's reasons for modifying oneself are going to be intensely personal and differ from individual to individual. I do not believe it right to judge another's reasons for modifying as right or wrong based upon one's own internal criteria or one's own reasons for modifying oneself. Modifying for the sake of attention isn't an inherently bad reason to modify because, again, one's reason's for modifying are going to be individual. My reasons for modifying, for example, may not be the same as someone elses but that doesn't make my reasons or theirs any better or worse than the other.
I would also take some issue with the assertian that modifying for attention cannot fit into one's core value of the modification. While I personally don't modify for the attention, I have come to realize about myself that I don't dislike most of the attention I recieve because of it and would even go so far as to say that I enjoy the attention. Yes, I have other more central reasons for my modifications, but I don't think I can honestly claim that attention doesn't play some small part in my reasons for doing so. I think of my own body modification artist as well, who has stated to me quite directly that he loves attention and I most certainly do not respect him any less because he happens to enjoy the attention his modifications grant him.
The sorts of issues I have with fanatacism stem from individuals trying to foist their reasons for modifying upon others and try to foist their beliefs upon others. I do not think its respectful to look down on others because their beliefs are a little different and even less respectful to try and forcibly change their beliefs to better reflect one's own beliefs. As long as everything remains individual and no one is trying to change how anyone else believes or anyone else chooses to modify or not modify, I don't have a problem with whatever shade their beliefs happen to take.
February 8, 2012
thank you guys for your input.. you have given me a new angle of view on this concept… i comprehend that each indvdidual is different. hell if we were all the same we'd be robots… i just have never had a real discussion with anyone on the subject… i have my core beliefs and i will stick to them…but its nice to get something we can all agree to disagree to disagreee to agree about… lol…
I'm not sure if i agree with the definition of fanatic here.
I agree fanatic tend to follow the rules to the letter but may not question this, and consider all others wrong, however they do tend to believe. Do we have fanatics? Maybe, but it seems unlikely simply due to the lack of dogma in the CoBM, and i haven't met one yet.
There are few rules, and nothing to prescribe preaching or conversion. In fact it is quite explicit that this is a personal path, and thus it would seem foolish to try to insist someone follow your way. Also, as personal questing is promoted, then questioning and making your own rules is positively encouraged, not usual in religions which fanaticism is usually associated with.
Do we have people who join for social reasons or to be cool, and don't believe the core values?
Probably, but the application process means they would at least have to have an abstract understanding of the CoBM's core values, in order to pretend this was their view. Would someone like this bother? Anyway i think that f they wish to join, maybe this is an opportunity. We don't all immediately have a deep understanding of our faith, and the church may be a spring board to assist in the journey.
February 8, 2012
yea i get what you mean…. i just personally knowofpeople,not mebers of the CoBM but just commoners for lack of a better word that are all like i got this so that this girl would like me and this and that…. i just feel that if an action doesnt have a profound meaning then it is very shallow… but who am i to pass judgement…. since i posted this i have tried looking at things from a less intense view point… of course because of human nature i will still be somewhat judgemental but i dont let it bother me so much…. fanatic or not everyone is entitled to their modifications…. ^_^
May 24, 2012
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I'm not sure what this thread is attempting to convey, but I'm going to put myself out on the limb and speak up on behalf of fanaticism and say I feel adherence to this idea. Fanaticism is part of the whole reason I communicate with this group!!! The uncritical part of the definition of the word is the key for me… maybe you don't feel zeal or enthusiasm about mods, but many people here do and although their reasons are their own (and usually different than my own) we support each other (AND YOU) on your "modified body" path. The whole nature of being part of this church is considered "extreme" in modern society.
Stay with me here… I tend to write the "far out" words on the forum threads lately….
Aim of goal requires fanaticism. If you want to live with horns implanted in your head or big earlobes or tattoos on your face, you WILL be forced to endure unfair and unjust criticism about your choice. It is the steady devotion, allegiance to personal truth, and support which will keep your spirit nourished. There is a lesson which is spoken as a wisdom of spirit that is heard in the actions of fanaticism. My fellow mystics may know this. I personally believe in the freedom of body modification for ANY reason, and the pure beauty of that personal feeling FOR ME, is enough for me to know it is a path for me….
The enthusiastic part is where all the silly comes out to play!!
Hope I didn't come off as bitchy, because that is not my intention!!!
February 27, 2012
Fanaticism is present in all walks of life, in almost anything. You can be a fanatic for food, religion, marriage, television, or Justin Bieber. I myself do not count myself as a fanatic in anything, really. I'm far too lazy for that much devotion.
I also haven't found a fanatic in the CoBM. I'm sure there might be one out there, but I tend to agree with Oakbear. The lack of dogma would cause a problem in creating a fanatic.
September 16, 2012
The people you describe as fanatics (he got a tattoo so a girl would like him etc) to me sound like pretenders, wannabes. Wouldnt a fannatic try to follow rules to a T, and want to follow ritual as well? With the lack of rules and the ritual belonging to each of us rather than a set "tribe ritual". I would have to say a fannatic would be hard to find here. Unless we are all fannatics lol.
September 9, 2012
Many good points are raised in the thread. Fanatical adherment to a dogma may not be present but fanatical adherement to personal development through a technique perhaps. I am pretty fanatical about most of my spiritual practice (the deities I follow, techniques to hit gnosis, etc) even if I do not preach to others. It's a driving force in what I do and why, part of it can even influence my choice in partners, etc. It's my goal one day to be an at home mom who paints and concentrates on spiritual development all my days. Now if that will ever happen may be a pipe dream leaving me to have to keep the work force in mind while I try to pursue my main loves in my life… lol
Now about attention, I'd be lying if I said it's not an ego stroke to have people spark a conversation by asking after one of the mods. Most people are not aggressive about questions or rude, I live in a very progressive and for the most part open-minded city. I do design all of my tattoos and often insist on adherence to the design/style, so they almost double as a walking portfolio for me. Again something where the conversation can lead to. "Oh you designed that? What other art do you do?" *break out the portfolio url*. It's not a reason I do it, most everything is in a hideable location due to where I currently work. But it is an amusing side effect when I wear more revealing clothing.
February 8, 2012
i appreciate everyones partake of this thread.. i didnt start this to offend anyone and if i have i thoroughly apologize… its just that i feel that a "belief"or philosophy is somewhat besmirched by people who view it as a game more than a, well, belief…lol… i guess what i feel is my own form a fanaticsm, in the form of im trying to protect for lack of a better word, the "sanctity"of what the CoBM means to me… for instance my ear lobes are at 3/4" and i refuse to go higher bc that would mean no spiritual significance to me bc i dont understand the meaning behind going bigger… not to say that we dont know the meaning of that but i feel that certain things are best left to those that get it… i feel like im rambling…lol… i guess what my view point on it is is that if you can explain if beneficial then i consider it not fanatical.. but thats me… i am human and is everyone else… i encourage more talk on this subject… i enjoy good conversations… ^_^
Spiritual significance is going to be a very personal thing. For example, the stretching of my ears, in and of itself, doesn't have much spiritual significance to me personally, beyond the experience of the journey itself. Its part of my larger personal project so in that sense it holds some spiritual significance, but the mod itself has little relevance outside the context of the larger project. If you ask a dozen different people about the significance of their stretched lobes, however, you are likely to get a dozen different answers.
February 27, 2012
September 17, 2012
I've heard some really good points from many sides on the subject of fanaticism, I know the acceptance of mods is more tolerant now than they have been in the past. I am a christian and I am on a personal journey, my beliefs of Christianity are not simply what I have been told, but on the research, reading, and years of personal experiences. Some piercings I have are not spiritual, others are.
I think the only fanaticism in the CoBM is that each person here should be respected for their beliefs and their journey, not to judge, but to be here to help with mods that unite all of us no matter any of the other likenesses or differences. I also would not try to impose my beliefs on anyone nor would I want their beliefs forced on me. Hopefully we could have discussions of each others beliefs and come to a better understanding of ourselves, each other and the world.
I wholeheartedly think if nothing else that this Church should be an open and honest place where people of all walks of life can come and find acceptance of being modded instead of what usually happens in the majority of society today. I know I feel great being here and reading what others have experienced and hearing some similarities that let's me know that we are not alone.
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