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Does anyone else believe in a benevolent god and angels?
Topic Rating: +7 (9 votes) 
December 6, 2012
12:48 pm
Amy_S
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I wouldn't claim myself to be entirely Christian, but I believe I have experienced God and angels in the past, especially in dreams. I also believe that they are nothing at all like they are depicted in text. I've experienced angels the most through focusing my dreams, which I have been working on for the past 3 years and have gotten rather good at it. In fact, my lip piercings can used as an indicator that I am dreaming so I can go lucid, because often I will not have them in my dreams, which will be too obvious. The angels have taught me a lot, mostly things like being humble and never taking things too hard. Although I don't believe in the Abrahamic traditions, I think they are on the right track. I just feel their texts have been corrupted over the years by political desire. Who else believes in a god and angels? I know the Church of Body Modification leaves this kind of thing open for personal discovery.

December 6, 2012
2:14 pm
vampyremage
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My particular beliefs are somewhat complicated but I'll try to keep things brief and tailored towards the question. I believe in many gods and non-physical entities including demons, angels, faeries, ect. I do not believe, necessarily, in a benevolent god, however. Gods, as humans, I believe are many faceted and universal benevolence and malevolence are too human a concept.

Gods, I believe, are manifestations of widespread belief. I believe there is an energy that permeates all things that gods are, in a sense, born out of. They are shaped by belief, created as archetypes, their strength and nature derived from the spirit of their believers. Some non-physical entities are likewise shaped by a similar force, differentiated from gods in strength and scope rather than in nature.

Because I believe the essence of gods are formed by human belief and energy, I see it as impossible to have a truly benevolent or truly malevolent force. Gods are archetypes, the incarnations of concepts and ideals but those concepts and ideals are bound within the confines of human thought and human understanding. While I see them as being more than human, I do not see them as being beyond something which can be encompassed by human understanding.

December 6, 2012
11:59 pm
KristenAtkinson0
South Korea
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No. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any gods, angels, demons, heaven, hell, ghosts, souls, etc. That being said, I don't disrespect anyone who does. It just doesn't follow logic, and Christianity in itself is so twisted and corrupted that I'm surprised it has such a huge following.
I enjoy stories about the supernatural, but I take them as entertainment only. I actually like the mythology, even Christian. I collect rosaries, as I was raised Catholic. I like the iconography. It's beautiful. But I believe there is no god, benevolent or not.

December 7, 2012
5:00 am
Oakbear
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I don't believe in a God outside our own existence, so as such i suppose i wouldn't say i believe in a benevolent God. I do believe in a shared consciousness which pervades all life, and that this seems to have rules which engender it's growth and development.
One of the ways we can access that is through stories or visions, Gods, Goddesses or anything else your mind can use as a tool.

I also think it is plausible that there are forms of life we are not fully aware of. It seems likely that these may get incorporated into stories and folklore. Definite answers would be hard to get without first hand observation though.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
December 7, 2012
10:39 am
SasQuatch9585
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Logically, I can't believe in God the Father as he is presented in the bible and in religions based on the old testament. It simply doesn't make sense that this life is a test. What's the point of testing us if he already knows everything that's going to happen? What's the point of creating imperfect beings to see whether or not we will make mistakes?

It's the same as purposely designing a machine that won't work properly, then turning it on to see if it works properly.

Furthermore, if God is well-meaning and kind, why would he punish one person for the mistakes of another? Adam and Eve committed the first sins, and so they were cast out of the Garden of Eden and they and all their descendants are cursed to a life of suffering. Is that fair? Is that kindness? Is that well-meant? Does that sound like ANYONE'S definition of love or justice?

"Sorry, your parents killed someone so we're going to imprison them and you, and your children and grandchildren. Oh, and there'll be a lot of torture too. But we mean well. It's for the good of your family. We're doing this because we're kind."

Sounds like the words of a vicious, tyrannical government.

To sum it up, if God loves us and wants the best for us, why set us up for failure by demanding perfection from beings he knowingly and willfully created to be imperfect? If God is perfect, then God cannot make mistakes. So this is what God intended.

My conclusion: If there is a God, God is hateful, vicious, and sadistic. Not something I would ever look up to, aspire to be like, or worship.

I believe that we humans are basically on our own. I believe that we should be kind to others, just as Jesus and Buddha and Ghandi and the Dali Lama and others throughout history have been trying to tell us. There are obvious benefits to being a good person, and one doesn't need to wait until the next life in order to receive these rewards. I believe the key to happiness is learning to let go of one's anger, though I understand through direct experience that being victimized all your life is nearly impossible to let go of. Despite all the progress I've made, I still struggle with it today. The desire for vengeance is very powerful, but getting vengeance only continues the cycle of suffering and hatred that caused my suffering in the first place.

Believe me, I don't know what the solution is. I don't know that there is one. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation and not live in the past. I'm trying not to let them destroy me, as they wish to. That's the best I can hope for.

Sometimes I wonder if I can say anything in less than a hundred words.
December 7, 2012
4:24 pm
Sommersett
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The belief in an existence of a benevolent God seems to build upon the concept of 'control of the masses.'

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
December 13, 2012
10:15 am
Amy_S
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Eh, I'm a member of the Church of Body Modification because I believe mods are a spiritual experience. I'd understand an alternative theory, but simply believing in the atheist theory doesn't match up to the general idea behind CBoM. The mission statement says "The Church’s mission is to educate, inspire, and to help lead our members along a path of spiritual body modification." This is a church, not a club/guild/etc. That being said, I respect our extended allies. I'm just a little astounded by all the people who come of like allies and not members. And the God I believe in is also loosely inspired and based on personal dream visions, not anything AT ALL from the Bible.

December 13, 2012
12:38 pm
vampyremage
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I don't think spirituality needs necessarily extend to the belief of a personalized deity. Spirituality is a very personal thing that can take on any number of forms.

December 13, 2012
3:46 pm
Amy_S
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Yeah, I know. Buddhism doesn't have anything similar to an almighty god, as an example. I was just feeling astounded by the comment of open atheism. Tell me how atheism spirituality mix. I thought atheism was the belief that nothing exists outside physical phenomena. I also was feeling a bit edgy at the time because people are aggroing the idea of a non-specific group of angels and their leader. I also made it clear that this is not necessarily the Abrahamic god, yet people insist on drawing the conclusion that it is.

December 13, 2012
3:52 pm
vampyremage
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I think there's only been one comment thus far about open atheism. As far as how it pertains to spirituality, I can see how it might be a bit of a stretch but in some contexts I don't think one needs be antithesis to the other. LeVeyan Satanists, for example, are largely atheistic in nature and yet that is one example of a spiritual belief structure that doesn't necessarily need believe in any manner of supernatural deity of power.

Personally, I'm of a live and let live philosophy. My spiritual beliefs are my own and those of others aren't going to have much impact upon mine, positively or negatively.

December 13, 2012
4:38 pm
KristenAtkinson0
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My comment of open atheism was not meant to offend, as was said. I don't assume that anyone who believes in a benevolent god is necessarily meaning the Abrahamic. I don't believe in that one either.
My spirituality is not manifested in some deity, or the idea of nature as a deity. I joined the CoBM as a way to connect with people who feel the same way about themselves that I do. My transformation into the person I am supposed to be, and the people who understand that feeling and that quest is what keeps me here.
I suppose you are right, I may not belong here. This is not a club. However, when I joined the first time I was very spiritual, even somewhat religious. I just no longer believe that way.

December 14, 2012
4:23 am
Oakbear
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I think it's a very interesting question as to whether a hard line atheist would believe in a sense of spirituality. I think that's separate from having to believe in a concept of deity.
I guess some would say they are still spiritual, some wouldn't. The way to find out is ask them!
In fact some might not know, and that's fine too.

The great thing about the CoBM is we accept anyone willing to explore themselves and the world through modification, however they define it.
Kristen, you are most certainly welcome! I hope you feel you belong here, because i do.Smile

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
December 14, 2012
2:22 pm
KristenAtkinson0
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Of course I feel I belong here.

Truthfully, I never thought a conversation like this would happen on CoBM forums.

December 14, 2012
6:10 pm
Iliandra
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I was atheist leaning toward agnostic for quite a while after being brought up by a low order Catholic and a high order Lutheran (it was a little odd, but they worked it out). I went to church every Sunday and some Wednesdays for almost fifteen years. When I took my confirmation classes, I realized that many of my personal beliefs weren't reflected in their teachings and that if everything was God's will, then he either also willed all of the bad or evil things in life or was somehow an all seeing but simultaneously neglectful God. There were too many things I could not accept, and I decided that atheism suited me because I found similar flaws with all the deity oriented religions I encountered. However, about three or four years later I discovered Wicca, and while I absolutely do not hold to 78% of what some people try to shove down my throat about it, particularly other Wiccans, I hold the core principals of what the religion is based on in high regard. It is a very blanket term for a religion with a lot of sub categories, and somewhere nestled into those categories I've found a place that I'm happy. For me, it's a very scary idea to think that there is no higher power and no guiding force -at all-. I believe in benevolent God(s) and guardian spirits in various forms, but I think that that means that there also has to be some sort of malicious counter-force. Which is kind of sad, but otherwise there would be no catalyst for change.

December 15, 2012
4:12 am
Oakbear
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KristenAtkinson0 said

Of course I feel I belong here.

Truthfully, I never thought a conversation like this would happen on CoBM forums.

Questions are good, it helps us all learn.Smile

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
December 16, 2012
12:25 pm
Sommersett
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Personal beliefs aside, what if there is nothing beyond the physical body? What if this is it? In a similar way that being theistic can inspire kindness or compassion, maybe being a non-believer could inspire self reliance or even body modification.
Furthermore, the whole topic of God and body modifications is SUPER interesting to me!! For example, if you have tattoos you are not allowed to be buried in the Earth according to Jewish religion. Kuan Yin has stretched ear lobes. I bet we can all throw out a few examples.

Everyone has something to say about the Mona Lisa until you're standing in front of it speechless.
December 16, 2012
4:41 pm
KristenAtkinson0
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The Buddha has stretched earlobes, as he was royalty before becoming an impressive deity-like person. His ears were stretched because he wore gold weights on his ears. That's how you could tell a person was rich or royal back then. Irony….

Questions are good, yes, as long as we stay civil.

December 19, 2012
5:36 pm
KendrahLi
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I have my phases of how I manifest my beliefs. I always hold my belief and practice on how I see myself/soul, but whether I'm actively practicing my religion or not fluxuates depending on my mood/health/energy levels. There are times where I look like an atheist or even nihilist myself.

But per the OP-- No I don't believe in a benevelant God or angels for this reason: I've never been able to believe in ultimate good and ultimate evil, even as a child. I see the whole world as shades of grey pretty much. I do have deities I work with (per definition of a deity) but there is no good/bad, dualities, karma, morality, punishments in my specific religion.

-= www.khaotyk-artwerx.com =- Ex Ignorantia Ad Sapientiam; E Luce Ad Tenebras
December 20, 2012
2:28 am
link9454
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My experience in life, sadly, tells me that there is no God with the aspects attributed to it by Christianity, that is, all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. One of those attributes, at least, is incompatible with what I have seen.

My parents took in foster kids for 19 years of my 21 year life, and through it, I have seen much evil. Evil that, in the end, wins. If one were to use the "greater good" argument, then these situations would somehow turn out good. Now while I have seen some turn out good, and some I'd perhaps call miraculous, I've seen many that did not lead to a "greater good" of any kind. I believe in a deist conception of God, basically he set the stew cooking and then left the kitchen (I use the pronoun "he" in a very loose way).

I really don't find angels any more likely then a christian conception of God.

Forward though the dark uncertain, Or back though the thorns with your bare flesh, It is your choice how to live, between the truth and the lie.
December 29, 2012
7:05 am
Terri
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Of course! How else can you explain the good things happening to us in spite of all the wrong in the world? Its due to the kindness and forgiving nature of GOD! And HIS angels are the reason things become better after worse! :D

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