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the church is being taken over...grab your shit and run!!!
Topic Rating: +14 (18 votes) 
May 16, 2012
11:30 am
indi
Eden, NC.
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top line obviously meant as a joke.

so this will sound dramatic.

like drama.

like sonny is a bitch (and she is)

like it's petty, but mannnn….just listen up

 

i stopped coming on here so much cause it seems like these people can turn a pretty smile and tell you what you wanna hear and get in with praise.

there is one person who just popped outta nowhere (not saying names cause i DONT mean drama, but just to talk about how i feel about the church as of now) and they're acting like they're all knowing of everything with his little hair flip and shit just cause he looked up some bull on the internet and has a few modifications. SCENIE WEENIES ARE TAKING OVER. i'm not out to judge anyone, but merely assess what i've heard and THEN seen. which is human nature. i mean there was one girl who got in just to ask questions about a school paper. yeah, cool it got our word out more, but i think there is an application for a reason.

i'm not putting down the church, it's members, or anyone's freedom of choice, but i know a few others that have been thinking this, but no one is stepping up to say anything. i think it is important for us as church members to put aside the shit and get over it, but also i don't think anyone should come on here and pretend to know everything about every single subject when they haven't even studied or practiced and they're giving people WHAT TO DOS from what they've read just because they think they have to prove their self to other people who are experienced.

i am deeply sorry if this offends anyone. i can promise i don't mean it in offense i am just very open about what i think. i'll probably get thought of as a drama starter, get kicked out, and get bashed, but i'm sorry. it's just my opinion and how im starting to feel.

May 20, 2012
4:29 am
strommer
Portland,OR
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i agree that people shouldnt be giving advice on things they dont no if i dont no something id rather ask questions to find out the answer than give bad advice  

May 20, 2012
6:35 pm
Oakbear
UK
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My first thought on this is that this forum is a place a few CoBM members, and some others, come to discuss related things. It is not the CoBM, and the vast majority of members don't visit this forum.

I understand that it can mean a lot to those who invest in it.

A few times we've had a forum member who is very enthusiastic and posts a lot, and this can change the balance of such a small group to a degree. I love it when someone brings that enthusiasm and energy. Not too long ago a lady named indi did just that. Wink

This place is for everyone, however you judge their motive, and that's fine. We can learn and grow together, and for that we need to embrace the differences as well as the similarities.

I've also not seen any bad advice about mods i can think of given here, and if it were i imagine it would be corrected by others. Where good advice comes from doesn't matter all that much to me, if it's good and it helps others. I know i learn from more experienced people, as well as my own personal experience.

 

I hope that reads constructively, as that's how i meant it. I want everyone to feel they can contribute, and know that it is valued.Smile

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
May 22, 2012
12:15 pm
parasiva007
Evansville, IN
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well wouldnt all churches be better if they kept the posers out? i mean where would chirstianity be or buddhism or any faith be without superficial people? i mean they serve their purpose and for folks like me, i started off in the church barely knowing anything, but i learned and so can they :) i say let them have their cake and eat it too, besides posers tend to be our best publicity

May 22, 2012
2:58 pm
indi
Eden, NC.
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i posted so much stuff at once because for a while i would come on and try to post stuff even as registered and it wouldn't show up.

so i had a lot of catching up to do when i could finally post.

i go for days at a time then come back and have catching up to do. i don't stalk it everyday posting something after every word is said and play along like i know and am such an amazing person and change my ideas or opinions i have previously stated just cause someone says they don't like it.

second…you wanna go among fake people? go a head…that's not my thing, i do it enough already.

yeah, publicity, but this ISN'T about publicity.

as for bad advice…i've seen some. you don't EVER go look something up and tell someone what do do unless you're a PROFESSIONAL.

share your experiences, share your knowledge, but what's right for your body may not be right for them so don't tell them what to do unless you're an actual professional.

i do not mean to sound so shitty, but i've just emailed my wish to leave the church. i don't want to be a part of something people join that derives of spirituality and actually be doing it for a trend. it floods my spirituality and it feels corrupted. judging or not (which is human)…i call it intuition and not feeding into the bullshit. i give anyone and everyone a chance cause i love all people, but trends…i hate trends. i hate that somewhere i go to for enlightenment and stress relief is filled with these guppies that are so full of it. it's become more obnoxious to be a member than to not.

people will see that as stupid, but if you wanna chit chat with people who don't have enough respect for you to be their selves and not attempt to bull shit you, then that's you. not me.

i know people will take offense to this.

i'm sorry.

i hope you some of you guys understand cause there are some of you i do value and believe you are some amazing and intelligent human beings that are very real in a world of fakes and wish to speak to you outside of here.

my facebook is http://www.facebook.com/SonnyJuniper

personal feelings and opinions.

i won't be on after this.

May 22, 2012
3:57 pm
vampyremage
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The way I look at it is that my faith and my spirituality are very personal things.  The Church just happens to represent a large pillar of my personal belief system and as such, it makes me happy to be a part of it and, through it, to communicate to others who have a similar pillar to their systems of belief.  I know what body modification means to me and I know it means something very similar to many others who are a part of the Church.

 

As for those others, who am I to judge?  I am certainly not going to leave certainly because I feel someone doesn't believe the right things or doesn't believe the right things deeply enough.  Their motivations are their own and my motivations are my own and, quite honestly, I wouldn't want to be a part of something that excluded others due to petty judgements about subjective feelings.  Who are any of us to judge the subjective motivations of others, at the very least without having an in depth discussion with those others to get a real sense of who they are and what their inner motivations are.  Judging by surface appearance and first impression is no less negative than having others judge some of us for our modifications.

 

As for misinformation, I am in full support of calling out any misinformation given.  Put it out in the open and educate as best as we are able, given our range of experiences.  Be clear what those experiences are and from what angle we are coming from in giving that information.

 

How can it be seen as acceptable to judge one type of individual and so unacceptable to judge another type?  To me, that just rings of hypocrisy.

May 22, 2012
5:01 pm
strommer
Portland,OR
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i find that people that are just in it as a trend dont tend to stick with it for to long if its not something they truly believe in there not gonna waist there time and as for those that dont no what there talking about i no i wouldve loved having a resource like this when i first started getting mods i wouldnt have made some of the stupid decisions i made when i was younger …… its sad to hear your leaving indi Frown 

May 22, 2012
5:28 pm
UnholyResonance
Seattle, Washington
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I think everything I would have said, has already been said.
I will say this, judging one person on appearance in a group of people who try to change how people view modified people, is ridiculous.
Hypocritical to say the least.
But that's really all I have to say on the matter anymore.

"Welcome Friends, Romans, and Circus Freaks to the generation in circuitry."
May 22, 2012
8:12 pm
Ignacious
North Carolina
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Vamp, you can't learn who a person is if all they are are lies. That person may still have a soul, but its weak and brittle like a dying flower. With no truth, no actual substance, there lies no nutrition. So even though the body walks along, a automated flesh-machine, what was once a person, is now a clone.

 

Unholy, not once was she judging people on their appearance. More of a personality. I'm not protecting her just because she's my fiance. No one gets special protection. If you got that impression, read again. If you still do, you don't understand.

May 22, 2012
10:21 pm
UnholyResonance
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Part of it was clearly based on appearance.
She noted hair style as well as an appearance driven stereotype.
Tell me I don't 'Understand', however, that is what was written.
Forgive me if it was not intended as such, but that's how it was written.

"Welcome Friends, Romans, and Circus Freaks to the generation in circuitry."
May 23, 2012
9:33 am
Oakbear
UK
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Indi, if you're still lurking, i'm sorry you feel that way. You're an asset to the CoBM and it'd be shame to lose you not because of a change in your belief, but how you feel about someone else's.

Feel free to avoid the forum if it isn't what you want anymore, but remember it isn't the CoBM, so you're always welcome to stay a member, or come back if you'd like.

 

If some of the responses on here seem critical, i hope you can consider them in the way they were intended, as guidance or differing opinion, and not as a negative reaction to you.

 

Members of the CoBM all have to have an application approved, and many get turned down. Those that get accepted have all shown the importance of modification to them and their spiritual journey.

It is true that modification is often linked with fashion, but fashion and spirituality are not mutually exclusive.

There are members whose beliefs or actions I disagree with, but it is not my place to judge why they feel what they feel, nor is it anyone else's.

Some may be more certain, change their minds,or have more experience, or a stronger sense of commitment than others. We all develop in our own time, and by accepting with an open mind we might learn something ourselves.

 

As for only professionals giving advice, i disagree that only they should do so. I have given advice on modifications for many years now, and never been a professional. I am not meaning to sound arrogant when i say my advice is frequently better than many who get paid for what they do, and i recognise there are many out there with more experience as well. Discussion is a good thing!

 

Lastly a note as a moderator. This thread has the potentially to become an arguement. Please keep it civil and respectful, and try to empathise with those you converse with before typing. Smile

 

Edit – To add a couple of thoughts after an odd dream!

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
May 23, 2012
10:20 pm
SasQuatch9585
USA
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This forum is an open discussion, and I think it's important to allow people who are not members to participate.  This allows those people to get a glimpse of who we are without needing to wait to meet a single member in real life.

No matter what happens in this forum, it is not the same as the church itself.  Maybe the forum gets taken over by "scenie weenies", but that's not the same as the church being taken over.

I understand if you no longer want to participate in the forum, but I would feel a loss at your absence.  I haven't been re-connected to this community for all that long, but already I have learned to look forward to the posts of many of the regular posters.  Yourself included, Indi.

So, in short, leave the forum if you wish.  I don't want to see that, but what the hell…I can understand that.  But to leave the church entirely?  Whoah!  Come on now.  That's like saying you no longer believe that body modification is a spiritual thing for you, just because a lot of other people are shallow about it.

Not for me to judge, not for me to tell you what you're really feeling, not for me to tell you can't do what you truly feel you need to, but it is for me to tell you that I'd miss your input on this forum.

One way or another, good luck to you and your man.

Sometimes I wonder if I can say anything in less than a hundred words.
May 24, 2012
10:37 am
Chris Carter
Pennsylvania
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I simply want to say I agree with Vampy and Oakbear's sentiments. SasQuatch also made some good points. Also, despise being a potentially inflammatory thread, I think everyone is keeping a cool head and are discussing things respectfully so thank you.

Church of Body Modification, President

May 24, 2012
9:50 pm
Ignacious
North Carolina
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UnholyResonance said
Part of it was clearly based on appearance.
She noted hair style as well as an appearance driven stereotype.
Tell me I don't 'Understand', however, that is what was written.
Forgive me if it was not intended as such, but that's how it was written.

 

Because the type of people she's pointing out, are driven BY stereotypes. Scene kids, or  scene people, are any person who dress or act a certain way, just because it is POPULAR. or they are trying (note i say TRYING not ARE) to be DIFFERENT. Not because it is who they are, not because they are experimenting with life, but because they feed off of other peoples opinions and views of them. That is why any 'note' to hair style or appearance was put in there. Because that is they type of people they are. 

I dislike judging others. But if you can't even be who you are, and instead are driven by what other people are, and what they want you to be or think a bout you. You are not a person. You are just a machine. A xerox. A reproduction.

Maybe it seems like its judging from appearance, but it is truly not. It is on personality. Or, lack there of one.

May 25, 2012
2:32 am
UnholyResonance
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Are you saying I'm not a person?
Or a general statement?
Because, if you're talking to me, that was a bit out of line.

"Welcome Friends, Romans, and Circus Freaks to the generation in circuitry."
May 25, 2012
4:02 am
Oakbear
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Everyone is on their own journey. They do not cease to be any less human or worthwhile than anyone else, however you may judge their actions or motives.

Even if someone IS trying to be something they are not, to suggest they have less of a soul, personality or cease to be a person is foolish. An important lesson i have learnt, with the help of body modification, is we are all one and the same.

I believe it is my responsibility to help others, not judge them.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Nietzsche
May 25, 2012
5:04 am
strommer
Portland,OR
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Ignacious said 

                  Scene kids, or  scene people, are any person who dress or act a certain way, just because it is POPULAR. or they are trying (note i say TRYING not ARE) to be DIFFERENT. Not because it is who they are, not because they are experimenting with life, but because they feed off of other peoples opinions and views of them. 

i dont think its fair to judge people on this for the fact that im sure everyone here has tried out many styles and looks before they found the one thats right for them we've all gone through different fads some of witch weren't for any other reason than to fit in or be cool most people end up not sticking with the ones that are just to be cool for long cause trends are constantly changing and the posers or "scene kids" change with it.

Oakbear said
 

As for only professionals giving advice, i disagree that only they should do so. I have given advice on modifications for many years now, and never been a professional. I am not meaning to sound arrogant when i say my advice is frequently better than many who get paid for what they do, and i recognise there are many out there with more experience as well. Discussion is a good thing!

 

oakbear you have always been a great source of wisdom along with allot of the other members that aren't pros  i agree that its sucks when people give bad advice on here but its usually corrected real quick 

May 25, 2012
9:11 pm
Ignacious
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UnholyResonance said
Are you saying I'm not a person?
Or a general statement?
Because, if you're talking to me, that was a bit out of line.

Do you have a guilty conscious?

I say again, if you got that impression, then read it again.

May 25, 2012
9:30 pm
Ignacious
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Oakbear said
Everyone is on their own journey. They do not cease to be any less human or worthwhile than anyone else, however you may judge their actions or motives.

Even if someone IS trying to be something they are not, to suggest they have less of a soul, personality or cease to be a person is foolish. An important lesson i have learnt, with the help of body modification, is we are all one and the same.

I believe it is my responsibility to help others, not judge them.

I am judging by actions and motives.

Actions-Dress like, and learn to be like what has become popular. With complete disregard for the bad name they give people who truly Are, what they are trying to be. An utter maiming of their soul. Because the soul is YOU. Not what you try to be, or what you pretend to be. Boarding it up and locking the door to your self kills you. You're left with nothing but an empty fleshy mechanism.

Motives- To be cool. To fit in. To intentionally be different for attention, even though the difference is just a facade put up to make themselves more interesting.

 

These people still have rights, nothing should be taken from them. But will I personally treat someone as an equal, who can't even treat their selves as one? No. I will be kind, I will not be harsh of word. But if asked my opinion, or if a thread like this is up. I will say as I wish, because it is asked of (even if only in-verdantly)

 

Sonny(Indi)- How are these people on their own journey, if they're stealing others journeys in life, to be popular, and get noticed by society. I don't really think that's one's own journey then. And to steal someone else's because you aren't happy with who you are in my opinion, makes you less then a person. Because you're not really that person. To be inspired by others is beautiful, it sparks passion, but to Steal, just like to plagiarize words is like plagiarizing their personality/soul.  

plagiarize-  1. copy something from other person's work: to copy another person's idea or written work and claim it as original

May 25, 2012
9:44 pm
vampyremage
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If someone is acting as some people say they are then the first thing I would ask is, is that universally a bad thing?  A have a few things to say on the topic.  First, on the idea of wanting to fit in, I don't consider that to be a universal negative.  While it is far from the specific path I would take in life, I cannot judge another for choosing that path, so long as others are not being hurt in the process.  We each have our own paths to take in life and just because a path for one person isn't the path for another, that doesn't mean that either of those two paths are wrong.

 

In my younger years, I used to have a very negative opinion of others doing things to get a reaction from people.   Then, as I began to progress along my journey of body modification, I realized that I genuinely enjoyed getting a reaction out of people.  No, that was not the primary reason I chose to modify, not even near the top of the list, but the fact remains that it has been a side effect that I consider to be positive.  This is something I would have judged fairly harshly in my youth.  Similarly, do I see those who do something to try and fit in.  Just because I and many others here happen to be the sorts to forge our own path in life despite what anyone else things, doesn't mean such a path is universally good for everyone.  I can see a very strong appeal towards fitting in and definitely understand why some might choose that path in life.  If for no other reason that it makes life easier in so many ways.

 

Then comes the question of trying to intuit the motivations of others.  I have read the same threads as everyone else has read on here, and do not think that its entirely fair the judgements that are even being made towards the individual who its assumed is doing all of this just to fit in.  Appearance is no way to judge such a thing.  Even if that appearance is so-called conforming to a particular set of norms, we don't really know that the individual looks the way they do specifically for the reasons he is being accused of.  Some very direct actions and/or words would have to be displayed in order to make such a leap in logic.  Again I reiterate from before, if it isn't right to judge the rest of us by appearance how is it right to judge someone else because their appearance is deemed too conforming?  The argument that they are being judged due to motivation doesn't hold any water when the motivation is based primarily around the appearance. 

 

There are certainly some valid complaints that might be able to be made here, such as posting irrelevant information or incorrect information and I would take no issue with either of those statements.  However, to take such a leap in judgement and completely right off that individual's right to be here and make assumptions about why they're here and what they're trying to accomplished based on nothing more than a picture and a handful of forum posts seems both petty and irresponsible.

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